Prove Thy Faith?

One thing I love about Orkut is that it brings people of differing philosophies, perspectives and faith together, without the physical violence (probably because everyone is in cyberspace).

Abdullah alerted me to a forum he manages called Christianity v/s Islam debate where Muslims and Christians can debate the merits of Muhammad, Jesus, the Koran and Bible, so long as the talk is non-violent.

Abdullah has posted what he sees as errors in the Koran (or is it Quran?) dealing with the moon and stars, although Kashif has posted counter attacks and is taunting Abdullah to defend his bible.

Meanwhile, a young forum called Comparative Religion seeks to bring people of differing faiths together through debate, and Abdullah seems to be fairly active in this community as well, refuting criticism as he goes.

There are more forums like these around Orkut, but what I think both of these lack is a clear dialogue between opposing views.

Communities like Christian Muslim Dialogue and Muslim Christian Friendship foster such a discussion, and I personally have gotten more about what Islam, Baha'i, etc. were all about through forums like these than from boring text books.

Note: An example of this is when I asked a question regarding the Koran.

Do We Need Religion?

Over in the Philosophy forum, Pallav asks the community "why do we need religion?" Answers varied from yes we do towards religion is evil, as well as everything in between. Here are a few responses towards Pallav's question.

Taha: closure- human beings need religion to give them the answers to questions science and human reasoning cannot. we are blessed and cursed with the ability to think. if we know that life is finite and there is nothing beyond this world we will plunge into chaos.

some people in the world might even commit suicide. religion or any ideology is all that sustains us as societies.

Amar: we do not need religion...the fact that so many people subscribe to it is simply that they [are not] yet mature to think for themselves. we, as humans, like to stay in our little 'comfort zone', knowing that nothing majorly wrong has taken place in the past thousand years (and attributing it to religion) and hence adopting a "why not" approach. man reserves every right to do what pleases him and gives him peace and satisfactin. i feel nothing wrong in following a religion, IF it doesn't interfere with other religions and IF it is tolerant enough of other religions.

Note: Edited slightly for grammar.

Mo: a religeon is not only a code but also a compilation of ideas...not only the law of a state...but a history book as well...the difference between religeon and science is that science has proofs.

religeon depends on faith and spiritual perspective and reasoning n all tht stuff...and mind you religeon doesnt always clash with science...

I personally enjoyed Mo's response the best, as I feel we should not label religion as entirely evil. You can find more of my thoughts over in the Philosophy forum (check the near the end of the discussion).

For those who are die hard fans of what is known as "the God debate," within Orkut, you can try heading towards the Atheist vs. Theist forum where "civil debate" takes place.

Should Women Be Imams?

Within the world of Islam, this is probably the oldest debates, and also one of the most controversial. Andy G, over in the Muslim Christian friendship, is wondering Women can act as Imams.

Sameer and Sheri seem to be at odds with each other with Sameer saying:

There was only one Muslim Women who was asked to teach other Muslim women how to make Namaz(Prayer).

She also was instructed to stand in the same row as the other women praying during Namaz. This special instruction was given to avoid what misconception some people are now trying to spread that is "women are allowed to do the Imamat as per Islam".

While an Imam (Prayer Leader) is supposed to lead from front. No one stands in the same row as the Leader. Why was a women instructed by Prophet(PBUH) to pray while standing between them and not leading them like an Imam.

Sheri (on page three) disagrees and voices her opinion by saying:

sorry, but just because there is no example in islamic history of something, does not mean that it is not allowed or cannot be done

typical men making translations by themselves for themselves
this is not what i believe in

i dont believe in strict or orthodox islam, i am a flexible muslim
however that doesnt mean i'll go against islam's teachings or anything but i think that women have every right men have [...]

women have the right to lead namaz in my view and i'll support any movement trying to achieve that

This is not the first time this controversy has appeared, as ironically a women did lead prayer as an Imam although she was criticized for doing so from other Imams around the world.

I don't see the harm in it and it would be interesting to actually see one conducted by a woman as they generally have been neglected many of the rights of their male brethren.

A Muslim And Not A Terrorist

After stumbling inside the Zionist Jews forum, Muhammed became upset at reading some of the viewpoints of the members of the community.

I am a muslim.......a muslim not a terrorist [...] I just joined this community and have read a couple of forums.......after reading them i feal heart broken and sad......do all you people think of muslims as terrorists only? are we nothin' except trouble maker to you? and do you think that we are proNazis and anti jews? [...]

I have great sympathy towards Israel and belive that jews have every right to live there,i am not an extreamist and am, against suiside bombing (which are cleary forbidden in islam).

I'm just sick of being refered to as a terrorist and request all you people that don't judge us by the doings of a hand full of people..........Israel is a great country may it live forever and may the muslims and jews make peace one day......

Muhammed's comments are welcomed by Aviroop and Iara, the latter who offers "big hugs to him."

Roberta is very pleased about Muhammed's viewpoint, although she thinks the Muslim prophet of the Quran (or is it spelled Koran?) was not a man of God. This of course stimulates new debate on pages three, four and six.

Uniting All Faiths Through Science?

Andre (who was mentioned before) has an interesting way to unite all of the world's religions. He posted this message in the World Peace forum.

PEACE can be achieved by uniting all religions together and demystifying them with SCIENCE in light of this extraordinary Message: [...]

All life on earth was created scientifically by Extra-terrestrials with mastery of Genetic Engineering and DNA 'In their own image' .They are the ELOHIM of the Bible wrongly translated for God, Elohim being a plural and means 'Those who came from the sky'. The ELOHIM decided to leave us progress alone and sent prophets to help us out and leave traces of their creation. [...]

Today we are advanced enough scientifically to finally understand the truth about our origins, without mystification, but rational understanding.

Although Andre's gets an "A for effort" for trying to present a unifying philosophy, his ideals are met with questions, laughter and more questions. Dayani is trying to figure out the whole "cloning Jesus" thing, (something the Raelians believe in, a faith Andre is apart of) while Xayne view Andre's faith as "extraordinarily dumb."

Huzefa pretty much sums up the discussion on page three.

Well this is exactly why world peace isn't possible. We just ain't open and tolerant enough of different views and ideologies.

Andre has recieved some abuse for his beliefs. Only because they are different.

We all find it easy to believe in GOD and all the Miracles He and His Prophets can perform but we can't believe in aliens. Don't believe or accept what the man has to say but i think you can atleast be courteous.

This is the WORLD PEACE community after all.

I think Huzefa is partially right on this. There are so many differing viewpoints out there that it would be impossible to unite the entire human race. Unless of course God himself decided to come down to planet Earth.

Science can help us understand the world around us, but it does not have the power to unite people, as science is merely elemental facts--and facts can be suited towards anyone's belief system.

Questions And Answers Of Faith

Philosophy and religious beliefs seem to play a huge role within Orkut, with younger members of faith asking older disciples questions and receiving answers, prayer, support, ect.

Over in the I'm on fire for Jesus! forum, Sahil posts his thoughts on his new found faith and asks for insight towards his condition.

Lately i feel i struggle a lot to live by the word. I am a new believer just a year since the Lord showed himself to me.Was Baptised this Easter but i feel i struggle to live by his ways sometimes and its hard for me to abide by his ways. [...]

Like Victor Hugo says in Les Miserables "To commit the least possible sin,is the law for man. To be sinless is the dream of an angel" but it still troubles me. [...] Guys please pray for me or give me some advice. I am very troubled because of This

Mr. Anonymous (or could it be Mrs.?) gives their advice by citing scripture, although both George and Siji offer more practical advice by advising Sahil to not only continue to read the scriptures but also seek out God in prayer. Interesting...

Islam Will Dominate The World?

Arzoo, who is best known for her Down with Denmark forum, appears to have renamed her community to Islamism.

Although I have no problem with Arzoo expressing her forum's beliefs (as everyone should be able to express their faith aside from violence) some members are uncomfortable with the image.

Obaid: AlhamdoLillah, I'm a Muslim, I love Islam just as much. But please put up a softer picture.

Although we Muslims usually mean that non-Muslims will ultimately recognize the truth of Islam and become Muslims, such a sentence to a non-Muslim can mean that we want to 'terminate' non-Muslims. This, as we all know, is totally opposite of what we Muslims wish to accomplish. We just want people to see the truth themselves, think about it, and decide for themselves.

Tormod disagrees, and thinks it's an excellent representation about Islam, (being an atheist and all) but Xahid thinks Tormod is simply afraid of the truth. He is?

Anyways, one muslim (Saad from Pakistan) is leaving the forum because of it's description while which does sound a little bit hostile in my opinion.

Description: Islamism is an ideology that demands man's complete adherence to the sacred law of Islam and rejects as much as possible outside influence, with some exceptions (such as access to military and medical technology).

It is imbued with a deep antagonism towards non-Muslims and has a particular hostility towards the West. It amounts to an effort to turn Islam, a religion and civilization, into an ideology.

I don't know what Arzoo was thinking, but her site description does sound anti-Islamic, something A. Wajid notes about. Forums like these often breed hatred and mistrust of Muslims, as people generally like to be enlightened, not dominated.

Orkut Censoring Anti-Muhammad, Anti-Denmark Forums

(Published on Blogger News)

After the explosion of rage over the cartoon issue, it seems that the Orkut team over at Google is having their hands full removing forums and profiles either desecrating the Prophet Muhammad or wishing death upon the entire population of Denmark.

Profiles and forums depicting Islam's prophet Muhammad as a pig, someone "in love" with pigs or as a pedophile have disappeared, only to sprout back up again within hours.

One profile entitled Hazrat Mohammad (similar to a previous profile with a nastier title) depicts Islam's prophet as not only gay, but as a converted Catholic.



A forum which portrays Islam's prophet as a pedophile (warning: explicit images) seems to be one of "those weeds" Google just can not delete as noted by the creator's public description.

Orkut can keep deleting this community and leaving the Death to Denmark communities...I don't give a ****. This community is like herpes. It will never go away.

But it is not just forums and profiles insulting Islam Orkut has to deal with. It seems as if they are in the process of weeding out communities dedicated to the destruction of Denmark and Norway as well.

Although most of the major ones have been eradicated, several still remain, although they are easy to spot with titles such as Death to Norway (and other variations).

Orkut, whose purpose is to network businesses, relationships and people with similar interests is quickly becoming filled with rhetoric from extremists on both sides of the issue. Ironically it seems that Google (at least on Orkut's forums) is quickly finding itself in a position that is their least favorite to play--Internet nanny.

Atheist Demanding Respect

Over in the Atheist vs Theist forum, Sharad demands equal respect for his beliefs.

Why cant Atheism be a religion, where our beliefs are in the inherent goodness of a human being.

Just being a Atheist does not mean we condone all forms of evil like murder or rape. [...]

My only point is Atheism is also rational and we are not as dumb as some theists perceive us to be.

My personal question to you is--can you respect Atheism?

Sharad goes on to explain how everyone views him as a sinner because he is an atheist (although most religions that acknowledge God's existence do call atheists sinners).

The conversation continues with Sharad requesting an explanation of evolution from a theist. As of this post, his request goes unchallenged.

Note: I guess I'll give it a shot. ;)

A Muslim For A Month

In the Muslim Christian friendship forum, Ali shares with everyone an interesting video that he has discovered on Google Video.

(Warning: For my Muslim friends, a cartoon of Muhammad is shown, so please no scrap hating)

The video sparks some interesting discussion.

David is unhappy with the video as they selected a Christian who seems to enjoy alcohol too much (although his pork comments were very funny).

John also seemed to enjoy the video and suggests Muslims should allow women to date non-muslim men, something Ali doubts would be practical due to "family tension."

Ali however would like to see more exchanges of faith take place and has this to say:

I too believe that there is much ground needed to be made on both sides of fence in the mutual understanding game. I, for one, would be very curious to know what kinds of responses would be received when random Muslim citizens are asked what their first thought is when hearing the term "Christian", for example.

I concur. More of this is needed and I would be interested in doing something like this (perhaps even switching places with a Muslim for a month).

The video is approximately 45 minutes long so you may not want to view this unless you are at home or on a very long coffee break.

Update: Centered Video.

London Muslims Protesting Against Terrorism?

(Hat Tip: Roberta)

There is chatter in the Islam Against Terrorism forum that London Muslims began protesting against terrorism. Now, if only we could have some more of this en masse. Here is an account from Roberta, with images below.

When I was driving home, in the afternoon, I passed through Park Lane, where there was a huge traffic... I did not know what was happening.

But then I saw a lot of muslims holding banners and ornaments, protesting in the streets!!

I was going to stop and complain, when I managed to read what their banners said. [...]

TERRORISM DESTROYS MUSLIM HERITAGE

TERRORISM IS NOT ISLAMIC. MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS. WE CONDEMN TERRORISM...

I was SOOOOOO HAPPY to see that!!!!!! You cannot believe it!!!!!!!!!

Everyone in the forum seems to be excited by the news, especially Hagar, who is calling for a beer.

Roberta managed to take some photos as she was driving using her phone, although they are not exactly crystal clear.

I have not seen anything within several London communities, but hopefully somebody else was also there with some great photos of the event.

For those of you are may be shocked that Muslims do in fact condemn those who blow up buses and trains and human domains, Gateway Pundit has a surprise for you.

Discovering Faith (Osho)

If it were not for Google, I probably would have never come across this belief before. Osho, from what I gathered in the Osho forum, is a faith about nothing...literally.

Ravindran: Osho doesnt have anything to teach. All is non-teaching.

He will destroy your very urge to be someone, to follow someone...

Kaushal: OSHO verbally has no meaning and that is choosen because it represents nothingness. [...]
U can learn nothingness by knowing of OSHO. Only thing in the world is to get back yourself learn what r u?
Ur name,Ur attitute, Ur wife,Ur House Ur surroundings or Ur belongings which u have gathered from world.

Max gives a better understanding as to what Osho is by pointing towards this resource via Wikipedia.

Osho (Rajneesh) claimed that the greatest values in life are (in no specific order) love, meditation and laughter, and that the sole goal of human life was to reach spiritual enlightenment.

To me the belief comes across as a mix between Buddhism and Baha'i (with ten pounds of phlegmatic added in). I love the beanie that he is wearing, although I am still a bit mystified as what exactly Osho is...just a bit.

The Philosophy Of Life

One of the things I enjoy is learning about what other people believe in, regardless whether or not I agree with their way of thinking.

Angel posts over in the Philosophy forum about her beliefs, which inspires everyone else to share theirs.

• Trevor: Mine is based (more or less) on the words I heard in Ben Harpers song "Burn One Down", a song about marijuana [...]
  
  My choice is what I choose to do
  And if I'm causing no harm
  It shouldn't bother you
  Your choice is who you choose to be
  And if you're causin' no harm
  Then you'’re alright with me


• Sardar: Allah...My Religion...and a bit of Spirituality...I am one of those guys, who would look up at the sky and make a new way out to some situation...


• Saqib: My philosophy is to try to answer the unanswered questions and first to find and then to reveal the deep hidden secrets and to find the unknown force that controls us and our universe and to live after my 'death'!


• Sahil: Life is about living it each day. And such a way that your last day has the same vigour as your first day had.
  
  Life's all about waking up each day to discover something new, about meeting old people but making new conversation, walking through old roads but still feeling nice about it, realizing that you have grown a day older but still feeling young at heart, meeting busy schedules but still finding time for old friends, being nostalgic about the gone by but looking forward to better days.


• 100rabh: Life is a game of arguments ... the better arguments wins for the time therez no better argument...That is to say that there are no rights and no wrongs...its all in the argument

The last one sounds a bit confrontational, although it is one of the more interesting beliefs posted in this thread.

One thing that annoys me is to find people who do not know what they believe. When you ask them they simply shake their confused heads and smile at you, something my nephew is an expert at doing and he can barely talk.

What are my beliefs exactly? You are going to have to visit the forum in order to find out. ;)

How Do You Define Free Will?

That is the question Ann in the Free Will forum is asking.

I use to hate questions like these as it generally leads towards a billion answers (okay, more like a hundred) with half of the people denouncing free will and the other half acknowledging its existence. Anyways, here are some responses from the Orkutians.

• Samik: Free will is an intricate illusion that appears to a restricted consciousness.
  
  It appears in the belief that given all the parameters of a state in space-time, there never will be enough scientific laws discovered that will enable calculation of all the parameters of other states.


• Sarah: free will is actually a path with a designation already, which you chose yourself. there are always more than one or two ways of doing some thing.. now its up to you which path to chose and how..


• Nidhi: free will is what lets your mend and senses flow to unrestricted horizons, determined by your inner self, free of all inhibitions, and tells you who you actually are and what you want to be


• Ann (again): i believe there are cretain predestined paths which have been laid for us.
  its like an empty room with hundreds of doors and each door leads to another set of doors..
  all we can do is choose the door we wish to enter..

Interesting perspectives. Samik later on refers back to an old blog post discussing science, faith and the future (try not to get lost). I do wonder however that if the future is already written (as some say) then do we really have free will? Or is the statement an illusion? Hmm...

Discovering Faith (Baha'i)

I first came across Baha'i when I invited Leif inside Orkut. He later on helped network me with some Baha'i within my city, although that is another story to tell. ;)

Anyways, I visited the Baha'i forum and after asking what their faith was all about, David was kind enough to give me an answer.

One of the main things that makes the Faith real for me is the sense that it makes of the phenomenon of religion. What I mean is that there are so many different religious traditions, organizations, and practices out there, and if you talk for five minutes with people from any one of them you'll realize that all of them contain not only a great deal of truth but also the ability to transform people. [...]

The idea of progressive revelation, that God has a purpose for humanity that is expressed and realized through the progression of these religions, the ultimate reality of which are beyond human ability to put into doctrines or words, gives the Baha'i faith an approach to other religions that is at once deeply reverent of their essence and yet not bound to the limiting dogmatic formulae that have been plastered on them.

Baha'i (from what I am gathering) endorse the major emphasis of all major religions. They believe in Moses just as much as they believe in Muhammad, not to mention Jesus Christ, Buddha, etc.

My further conversations with Leif, have revealed that the Baha'i faith (like all other faiths) has their own set of holy scriptures, although their are over 100 volumes to read from so it may take you a while to go from "cover to cover."

Hear Her Roar!

Wow, what a powerful video! The fact that it was on Al Jazeera makes it even more powerful!

Stefan, over in the Islam Against Terrorism forum, informs everyone of a powerful video that was broadcasted on Al Jazeera.

Mjolner, Patricia, Mike, Agni and Christoph seem to have enjoyed the video presentation, although Zain seems to differ in opinion.

Roberta is nominating the woman for "Queen," although I disagree. A woman with that voice should head the entire United Nations.

Note: For those of you outside of Orkut, here is the video link.

Noah's Ark From Outerspace?

Aka'Diabolic (in the Archaeology and Religion forum) asked whether there was proof that Noah's ark was in Turkey. Several posts later, Andre makes an interesting statement.

Noah's ark was actually a spaceship put in orbit around the earth which contained DNA samples males and females from the majors species of animals.

The Bible/Torah says in Genesis 7:17:

'The ark was LIFTED ABOVE the earth'

Clearly says above the earth, not 'on' the water

The spacecraft had 3 sections:

'You shall build it in stages, the lower, the second, and the third' Genesis 6:16

I found his view to be amusing, although I did look up his references to see where he was coming from. Meanwhile Aka'Diabolic, Ziyad and Roberta (before her profile was hacked) give sarcastic replies expressing doubt.

The discussion gets a little interesting later on, (or boring, depending on your view of faith) with everyone trying to validate their holy text.

The Angry Arzoo

You have all probably seen the reaction from Muslims over the depiction of Mohammed via cartoonish satire.

In response to the publications of the cartoon from a Denmark newspaper, Arzoo has formed a community called Down With Denmark. This forum seems to be gaining popularity as it has already swelled to over 1,900 members in the last five days!

Arzoo formed the community in response to being allegedly banned from the Denmark forum, although Morten denies the case and cites her frequent posts to the Denmark forum as evidence.

Arzoo seems to be getting a little too angry (scroll down) with threats of violence coming from her posts, although Medusa is not exactly helping out with her comments either (scroll down).

But alas, there at least appears to be a voice of reason, as Enigmatic Energy makes a plea for Muslims everywhere.

Frustration can make things worse only..instead of attacks on danish embassies..and other emotional debates..muslims should do something productive in unity..our frustrated behavior could only support the wrongful act of danish newspaper..

people are looking for the ways by which they can prove us uncivilized and stupid..this is such a matter on which a collective intellectual effort is needed..if we'll protest in such manner..no doubt other newspaper will try to harm our feelings through similar ways...

first of all we should look for unity..like passing some resolution in OIC..then in UNO..local protests cant help us..they could only make situation more worse by proving us as fanatic nation.. [...]

and believe me we cant harm through killing them or banning their products..they r getting more sympathy through such acts..and this was their master plan..Unity is the base for developing any future strategy..we should jsut calm ourselves..and think for some productive way..

Enigmatic Energy does have a point, although he may want to form a community promoting this idea, as some other muslims have created sites displaying that not all of them are fanatical as seen on TV.

Editor's Note: For those of you wondering, I do not see the point in "pushing buttons" of other people, unless one does it to enlighten others towards truth. So you probably know where I stand on the cartoon issue. ;)

Update: Links fixed.

Second Update: Apparently Arzoo was banned. Morton has the details (scroll down).

Inside Orkut-Exploring The Jesus Faith

Although I posted question on several communities, the "I'm on fire for Jesus" forum received the greatest response. Earlier, I asked community what made Jesus real to them, and here is what they had to say:

(Mauricio) Jesus started to be real to me with my conversion (new birth) experience. I was able to notice great changes occuring inside me. [...] But I begun to see changes around me. My brothers and sisters, some of them drug addicts, experienced the new birth (conversion) just like me. Their lives changed completely.

(Gessyka) Beca